Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to AV in the Wild, the podcast that dives deep into the heart of the pro AV industry. Out in the field, on the move and in the moment.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Everybody, welcome to AV in the Wild. I'm joined by IFA again and we've got an amazing host.
Also joining us, Sam Greason. Sam, tell everybody about yourself and why you're here with us for AV in the world.
[00:00:22] Speaker C: Thank you. What an amazing experience to be here already. Thank you for inviting me. So, yeah, I'm Sam Grierson. I am a later life writer and film director. I do have a day job as well, but I think that later life part is really important as part of my journey.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Fantastic. Ifa, what do you know about this whole thing? Because again, you've delved more into this and I know Sam's got a session she's doing later on with you as well.
[00:00:45] Speaker D: So, as you know, I co lead the Avixa Women's Council for the uk and diversity has been a little bit, a little, little bit of a soapbox for me for the last few years with my what if? Podcast as well.
And really, we are so lucky to have Sam on board as a keynote speaker this year because we've had people in the past and I just, I, I'm so excited and I've invited so many people to get up to, to CC4 this afternoon because I think your message is going to resonate regardless across the board. It's going to resonate with everybody. It, I think, and as somebody who's getting older, I think sometimes as you get older, you do put more blocks in place thinking, well, that's a younger person's, you know, opportunity or they won't want me because of my age. And I did watch the Netflix series where the girl lies about her age and I loved it.
Younger, it's called to get the job that she wanted. And it's just all these things. Life's hard enough as it is, but you've pushed through and it's, it's an amazing story. So in your own words, you know what happened.
[00:02:02] Speaker C: Thank you.
I think as part of my journey through diagnosis with neurodiversity, I was diagnosed autistic back in 2018.
And I know that doesn't sound very long ago, 2018, but actually if we roll back to that time, there was nothing on the TV for an autistic woman to look at. There was no TV shows, there was no films, There was Rain man and I'm not good at maths, so, you know, I'm like What kind of role models are there? I'd always known I was different because I'm gay. And I often thought my gayness was what made me feel different.
But then I got that point. I realized it's not just. It's not just that I'm gay.
[00:02:40] Speaker D: And did people tell you you were different or were you telling yourself Constantly?
[00:02:44] Speaker C: I mean, it was obvious that I was definitely behaving. I used to read encyclopedias and I'd get special interests and things like that.
But it wasn't until my eldest child was diagnosed at the age of four that we started to realize actually when you look down these list of traits, and I looked down this list of traits. Wow. And it was on the back of that diagnosis that I began my journey.
And realizing I was autistic was.
It was a massive shock to the system. And I always say to people, if you're going through a diagnosis process, thinking you are and knowing you are, are really different things.
And what that does and the journey you go on in your head and that grief process, the acceptance and the denial.
It's really important to acknowledge that a
[00:03:35] Speaker D: lot of people I've spoken to talk about a feeling of almost liberation where they actually finally understand what it is and start to. I mean, I don't think any of us understand ourselves ever.
I believe, like every day you're learning something else and the way you respond to things and you learn so much about yourself anyway. But to have something so major. How was that?
[00:04:02] Speaker C: I often refer to it as like a later life plot twist. You know, the end of a film and all of a sudden you have to watch the whole film again and go, now I know that.
[00:04:11] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: Oh my gosh. And I. I remember replaying when I was 4, when XYZ happened, and then when I was 7 and 12. And you think, crikey, if only I'd known. If only an other adult had known and could have actually said, it's okay that you respond like that.
And that's when the sadness and the grief comes. I think it's okay to sit with that four year old and say, you know, it's okay that nobody at the time knew. And I do think you need to process that because the enlightenment and the joy, if you like, and the relaxation that follows, I think is part of that process. But you do need the replay when you're remaking sense. And then when I later was diagnosed as ADHD as well, to complete the picture, the same process happened again a bit faster.
But you do do that retro revisit Yeah.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: I mean, it is a complete spectrum, isn't it? That's what the thing. It's not black and white. And as I say, it's not, you know, you're this or you're that. There is a spectrum, and we all are on that spectrum in some ways. And I think one of the other interesting things that you mentioned there is to say if you're. When you go through that diagnosis, there is that fear that, okay, if I'm not that, then what am I? And it's that potential fear of. As I say, you know, if I'm not ADHD or ASD or whatever it might be, then why have I got these traits, you know, being able to classify them in that way.
[00:05:35] Speaker C: Yeah. And even when you are given a label and, you know, labels are helpful to a certain point, and there's a point where they're not.
I know that from the LGBTQIA spectrum as well, in terms of, you know, where we all identify.
But I think for me, when I got my diagnosis of, obviously, I'm already gay, I'm now autistic, and later got adhd, I spent a period of time going, am I doing that because I'm autistic? Is that my adhd?
And. And then I kind of went, oh, I'm just Sam. And I've got to now to the point of I'm Sam. But I needed the labels. Exactly. But I had to go through the process of taking it on, living with it, feeling it replay to accept. And now I'm less worried. But I completely understand the importance of the labels.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:22] Speaker C: Even if we then reject them, I think as.
[00:06:24] Speaker D: As human beings, we. We. I mean, it goes back to caveman. Right. It's the fight or flight of somebody if there's danger approaching, whatever. And that's why we're drawn to people that are similar to us, and we see it. I talk about it, about boardrooms. You know, that the boardrooms are full of people that all look the same and they're all making the same decision. They don't want to mix it up and have someone different in there. And it's. It, It's. It's unfortunate. It's just the way we. We are built.
So we do want those labels and we want to put people in boxes. But I completely agree with you. It gets to a point where it actually is not no longer helpful because you are prejudging and you're making. You're thinking, oh, but she's adhd, so she won't want to do that. So you might, you know, for managers and for people and even in relationships might just be making decisions for people because of that.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Or excuses.
[00:07:12] Speaker D: Or excuses. Right.
So how do we deal with that?
[00:07:17] Speaker C: I think the most important thing is to treat everybody as an individual because if you say to that person, what adjustments do you need?
You know, I came in here and said, please, can we turn the lights down? But every autistic person isn't like that. And it depends on your percentages as well. I see myself as 80% ADHD and 20% autistic. I made that up. That's how I self identify.
And so I've worked with somebody on a previous project who was OCD with autistic.
We were completely different, utterly different. And I had to work out how to work together because I'm like, bang, bang, bang, now, now, now, go, go, go. And they wanted it written down and slow and it predictable, structured. And just because we're both autistic didn't mean that we would fit.
[00:08:06] Speaker D: So size doesn't fit all.
[00:08:07] Speaker C: It's a person, I think.
[00:08:08] Speaker D: Yeah. And we. Yeah, the cookie cutter just doesn't exist. It's not a thing.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: It's a spectrum, autistic spectrum disorder. So my son has asd and it is that spectrum where you are. And it's interesting, you put that percentage on which bit of which. Because he's more ADHD than asd, but he had a friend who was way more autistic than they were adhd. And again, you could see the traces you say they would be. They came together because they found that they had that tribe. And it's interesting, I mean, we've got someone else in the room but his mum, we met on a plane and I think she just knew that I was a. She diagnosed. And again, we are like a tribe now. We're together. She just knew. And we kind of locked in.
[00:08:51] Speaker D: It's creating your safe spaces, I think as well.
It's knowing that people, that feeling of acceptance that you know that you belong somewhere and that people get you. It's so important to us as human beings to have that feeling and feel that people want to be around you. And all of that which I've seen with, with friends and some of the stories they've told me about being excluded because they were, you know, because of their nuances and it's. We've all got them. It's all, you know, it's good.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: And again, we were talking again. One of the things that again, I.
My son really picks up on is the fact that it is actually a superpower. It's a tool that you can use if you harness it in the right way. And you were saying about organizations or, you know, putting people the same and what they need. But the thing with, again, certainly from ADHD point you said about encyclopedias, it's that hyper focus.
[00:09:39] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: If you're interested in something, you will double down. You will really go down that. But if you're not, then you obviously you won't. So again, it's trying to then harness that power, power and value that you can provide through this thing. You have these skills that you have and harnessing them in that way. And again, organizations, I think can really, rather than going, okay, you're over here, you're over here. Okay, let's really focus you on what you're good at. And then that becomes something.
[00:10:08] Speaker D: So talking about what you're good at.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: Yes. Tell us about you found this out and harnessed it.
[00:10:14] Speaker D: I mean, I've got so many questions for you, but. But where should we start? You choose. You know, the writing, the success that's come from that. The characters that you've created, how much of those have you based on?
On you or on people you know? You know, just talk us through the.
That journey.
[00:10:38] Speaker C: Thank you.
Yeah. And again, I do say later life writer because I don't have a background, my degree in criminology, so it's nothing to do with my day job. I'm a strategist and I work sort of marketing and propositions.
And it's not in my creative world either. So I'm late, alive to this. And because I wanted to tell stories and I wanted to get them in front of people that I took my experiences. My first play that I wrote by accident is called Crocodile, and the main character is called Crocodile. The name just came to me. I just sat down.
I'd gone on a writing course.
Not really because I thought I was a writer. It was just I needed to take a week off work and googled the week off work to see what was available. And there was a writing course, and my history was set based on fate. So I went on a writing course.
And the writing course was meant to be about prose and short stories. And I got a play in my head. So I kind of tuned the course out. Audacity is my brand. I tuned the course out and I sat there to write this play. But I realized when I was a few scenes in, I didn't know how to write a play.
So there was a library in the building where this writing course was. And I flicked in the break and I got some speed, read some plays, and I was like, pattern recognition. Okay, so the play's pretty much three acts.
Set it up, screw it up, fix it. Awesome. I can write plays. Simple as a pattern.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:05] Speaker C: So I go back, tune the course out, I'm sat there, they feed me, I sit there, I write this play, and By Friday at 5:00', clock, I printed out 60 pages of a play I'd written.
[00:12:13] Speaker D: Amazing.
[00:12:14] Speaker C: Just because it occurred to me and.
[00:12:16] Speaker D: But that's your hyper focus. Yes, that's where the superpower is. Amazing.
[00:12:22] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. The downside of the hyper focus. I was once working on a spreadsheet at work and I was utterly hyper focused in it. And I had my legs crossed. I have now. And I was like that for three hours, and I got up all of a sudden thinking, I need a drink, and I got up at speed to walk out the room. Unfortunately, my leg had gone dead. And as I tried to leave the room, I fell over and broke my foot.
So there is a downside to hyperbole, but it's absolutely locked in when it's something, like you said you're interested in. Absolute locked in.
[00:12:54] Speaker D: So what happened after Crocodile?
[00:12:56] Speaker C: So after Crocodile, Covid hit, and first thing you want to do with the play is put it on a stage.
Covid wasn't good like that. So not to be defeated, I got some handheld. You'd laugh at them at this conference here with all this amazing kit, but some handheld recording devices that had a little card thing. And I met Heather peace, who's in EastEnders and things. If you know Heather, she's amazing. And I'd met her previously and asked her if she would play the main character, Crocodile, because she's from Halifax. So from Bradford, next to Halifax, Yorkshire, where the character set. And I sent to this recorder and I cast two of the people and we recorded it. As terrible as it sounds on handheld
[00:13:37] Speaker B: devices, old Dictaphones, almost.
[00:13:39] Speaker C: Yes. They uploaded it on Wetransfer to me. We stick. We had a sound, so we stitched it together and I'm sorry to blow my own trumpet as well. Audacity again. But it sounds amazing given the technology we use.
[00:13:51] Speaker D: Brilliant.
[00:13:51] Speaker C: Just, you know, again, audacity and just. I'm not seeing obstacles, but your creativity
[00:13:56] Speaker D: is coming through, which is. Yeah. Which is brilliant.
[00:13:59] Speaker C: Yeah. And then I. So that was set in England, and I say England on purpose.
And I was in. I was in the bath a while later and this character came into My head of a woman in her 50s who was Welsh and she was a face painter and she was terrible at it and she was really lonely and she had no friends. And she goes into the post office and puts a sign up for face painting, advertising her face painting services. And then this English, this posh English woman comes into the post office, mishears and thinks she wants a fence painter and books her.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Brilliant.
[00:14:36] Speaker C: She books her. So she turns up at point this big posh house with her face paints and this, you know, and then comedy ensues and they make a fantastic relationship and it's all about later life, autism, diagnosis, etc.
And then. And while I was record, just about to record that, I'd reached out to a few actors through their agents and Miriam Margulies agent came back to me and said, miriam's interested in working with you. She'd heard about what was doing.
And I was like about to record Mole, my Welsh one, and I thought, oh, I need to write another one for Miriam. So I'm like trying to record this. I said to the agent, I said, that's brilliant. Let me send you a press release.
[00:15:17] Speaker D: Okay?
[00:15:18] Speaker C: So I'm like, well, I've done England, I've done Wales, I'm gonna do Scotland. And Miriam's background, Scottish. So I wrote this story about a campervan trip across Scotland with her considering an autism diagnosis.
She was playing a character that was 90, even though she was 80.
And so I write this play for her while recording Mole sent it over to her. She loved it. I went to her house during very end of COVID She's absolutely wonderful to work with. And we recorded the third of my trilogy. So I did sort of England, Wales, Scotland, and then, and then I put them out. But there was no content before. And I wanted to use comedy. I liked use humor and accommodate to get. Not to get things across to people. So that's how it started using audio plays because of COVID because it wouldn't let me put them on the stage.
[00:16:07] Speaker D: Absolutely amazing. Just brilliant.
So for somebody who.
Well, how do you feel about being our keynote speaker? You know, with all that background, you don't need to do it. I know why you do it. But can you tell people listening your motivation for sharing your story?
[00:16:30] Speaker C: Well, because nothing existed. I want it to exist. And all my content is free. So my film I later made with Michelle Jarram, who plays an autistic non binary lead character who talks about grief being interviewed by AI robots.
That content's on YouTube and it's free as well. My next film, which is about menopause, called the Paws, and it's a horror, will also be free when it goes out. My motivation is to get stories in front of people without a barrier of pain, that I want it to be really accessible just so that people have got role models and they can read those stories and experience those things.
The best thing for me is not normally what happens when I have a keynote speech like that is it's in the interaction with two or three people who come up to me at the end. They don't want to ask a question publicly. They'll come up to me at the end and they'll say to me, thank you, I'm going to get my diagnosis now. Or I've been thinking about it, or my friend is, or my daughter is. And I do it for those two or three interactions that I will get at the end, touching people's lives.
That's why I do it. That moment.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: I was gonna say so selfishly, again, bringing myself into this. My son has been clinically diagnosed. I haven't. Yes, but there I can certainly, again, like you were saying, for your journey, I can see all, if not many of the traits that he has through me. For anyone listening to this and watching this, again, can recognize some of these things. Where should they start? Because again, there is that idea of. Of like, oh, you know, if I go through this diagnosis process, a, I'm going to have a label. If I'm not, then there is that. What's wrong with me? Why have I got this? So again, anyone listening to this or watching this, how do they start? What can you. How can you help them get on that journey and what should they do?
[00:18:20] Speaker C: I'd say they're already on the journey. If they're asking the question.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the first thing. Ask the question.
[00:18:24] Speaker C: Exactly. Because if you are already thinking I might be.
Then you are already on there. You've obviously seen some stuff that's now on social media or you've watched a TV program and you've identified. There's something about that that has. There's an identification piece there.
Obviously you can talk to your GP and you can start that route, but there are so many support groups out there now, so many Facebook groups, so many sort of online communities that you can join and start to have conversations. Because for me, it's about the communities and the networks and that's why today so important and talking and making those connections, because it's that. That you'll get the strength from the other side of your diagnosis.
So making those connections and networks.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: There was one thing I was watching recently. There's a lot of, there is a, almost not backlash, but there's a lot of people thinking there's over diagnosis of ADHD now and again. Some of it they're sort of saying is down to, you know, the way we work now with the cell phones and everyone's glued to Instagram and the algorithms continuously making us consume again that dopamine that we're again that people with ADHD don't have that dopamine. We are seeking it through scrolling. I mean, do you think ADHD and autism has increased because of the way we live our lives these days with this high speed flashing lights and noisy, you know, attention seeking devices? Or do you think it's just always been there? It's just not been done. Do you think people are over diagnosed?
There's lots of questions there. Sorry.
[00:19:52] Speaker C: Yeah, I think the first thing to say is I'm not medical at all.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: No, quite.
[00:19:56] Speaker C: You know, my experience is lived experience and I think like I say, in 2018 there was nothing on social media, no TV programs, nothing. And now we've got a lot of conversation about it. So I think that that makes it feel like there's more conversation. But I think people have always been people and, and statistics haven't changed. It's the way that we diagnose. I know female diagnosis, non binary diagnosis is massively under reported and under diagnosed compared to the boys. Because I think the modeling was all done on male traits and males on everything.
[00:20:31] Speaker D: And females mask. Absolutely.
[00:20:34] Speaker C: And, and classically we'll be better, well, you know, better behaved at school and we'll be under the radar. But I was very quiet at school. I wouldn't, I didn't want any attention or anybody looking at me. And I think women experience the world differently.
[00:20:48] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:20:48] Speaker C: And therefore. So I think there's many, many, many factors at play, but I think there's just, it's noisier because social media is noisier as well.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Yes.
Yeah. So there is a lot the, the algorithms again. I remember with my son, if you put him in front of an iPad, his attention would be sucked in. You try and take the I iPad away on tv, it was more because the algorithm wasn't making that addiction to try and tune into again that dopamine hit and again it's the way social media and the way that they're trying to grab that attention really does feed into that. So it's really quite diversive, divisive sorry. In trying to suck people in these days
[00:21:28] Speaker D: working in the AV industry, we are surrounded by 10 tech and these shows are, I mean this hall in particular was probably really overwhelming when you walked in. And it's not just the volume of people, but it's the amount of noise. Yeah. There's just so much input coming from everywhere you look.
And over the years we have pushed. So we do have a diversity council.
It's actually currently led, although she might be at the end of her term now by somebody who is neurodiverse. We've, we've pushed that conversation in all sorts of different directions and now have spaces that. So you would have noticed that upstairs is a lot calmer. Yes. So there are some rooms where you can go and have, you know, time out and away from all of this because we do need to do our jobs as well and show up for our employers. So it's, it's getting that balance though.
And I think we're getting better, I think we're getting better at it every year.
But what tips could you give, you know, to live alongside this world of that's just getting more and more AI or automated and yes, it might improve our workflows and help with certain things, but how do we, or what tips would you give or that have worked for you to sit alongside technology and not, not be over consumed or frightened by it?
[00:22:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's about taking responsibility for your usage, you know, and do it in a kind of a choice way rather than a habit way. So rather than I try not to have my phone and constantly be checking it and checking for messages and things and do it intentionally. So I will try to say, I say try because it is an ongoing battle. But I will try to say to myself, and then when check my phone two hours and I'm gonna be intentional about it. So at 12 o' clock I'm gonna check in on my emails, check in on my social media and I'm gonna park it till 2. And I think by trying to be intentional, all of us, regardless of diagnosis, but if we're intentional about it, rather than allowing ourselves to constantly just be at the mercy of it, but taking a little bit that control back and putting some boundaries in and using that intentional thinking, I think would help a lot of people.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: I mean we could go on for hours around this, but you've got to go and do your keynote. So where can people continue the conversation? Where can they go and see your content? And again, how can they reach out and say continue this Talk on.
[00:23:54] Speaker C: Thank you. My company is called so Crocodile after my first play, Crocodile. And I am so Crocodile.
[00:23:59] Speaker D: That's a brilliant name.
[00:24:02] Speaker C: It's nothing to do with an actual crocodile. So, yeah, so if you Google Sam Grayson. So Crocodile. I've got a website, socrocodile.com all my stuff's on there. I'm on YouTube and Spotify, etc.
[00:24:13] Speaker B: Fantastic. And you've got an amazing keynote that you're going to be doing for the team here at ioc.
[00:24:17] Speaker D: I'm pretty sure it's been recorded. So for those people who can't, we've got. We are pushing the global community.
This is the first time that the women are coming together as a global group.
Even though IC has been running for a such many years, we've never quite managed to get an event together. So we're really excited from a council perspective.
But thank you so much. It's been a real privilege to to steal some of your time today and I hope you thoroughly enjoy the keynote and yeah, you'll have a fan. I'll be in the audience.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: Thank you for all you do. Again, the fact you're giving this where you're not paywalling it, you're not going to commercialize it, all this stuff is educational to everyone for your story. Again, personally thank you for everything you do. It's amazing meeting you and I will definitely now be following you and reaching out on my journey as well. So thank you again. So thank you everyone else for tuning in. Go follow Sam. Go, go check out her works. It is amazing. Follow us on AV in the Wild and we'll catch you on the next episode.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: That's a wrap on this episode of AV in the Wild. Who Big thanks to our guests and to you, our listeners, for joining us on this journey through the AV landscape. If you liked what you heard, don't forget to subscribe. Share Leave a Review it helps us keep the conversation going. Catch us next time as we hit the road again with more voices, more stories and more of what makes AV wild.
Until then, stay curious, stay connected and stay wild.
